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Post subject: Berlin memorial to Nazis' gay victims to be built this year
Posted: Jun 04, 2007 - 08:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
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Berlin memorial to Nazis' gay victims to be built this year
Quote:
BERLIN: A memorial in Berlin to homosexuals persecuted and killed under the Nazis should be completed later this year, the German government said Monday, following an agreement on details of the design.
The memorial, to be sited on the edge of the capital's Tiergarten park, will complement the nearby memorial for the 6 million Jews who died in the Holocaust.
Last year, a jury chose a design by Danish-born Michael Elmgreen and Norwegian native Ingar Dragset for the memorial. It will be shaped as a gray concrete slab, with a window allowing visitors to view a film projection inside. Initially, the plan was for a video of two men kissing — which drew criticism that lesbians were ignored.
Bernd Neumann, Germany's culture minister, met Monday with backers of the memorial. A statement from his office said that the plan is now for clips of men kissing and women kissing to be alternated every two years — doing "justice to the criticism that lesbians were excluded in the previous draft."
The memorial "should be completed this year," the statement added. The memorial's construction was approved by the German parliament in December 2003, and the federal government is pledging €600,000 ($808,900) to build it.
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Few gays convicted by the Nazis came forward after World War II because of the continuing stigma — and because the law used against them remained on the books in West Germany until 1969. The German parliament in 2002 issued a formal pardon for homosexuals convicted under the Nazis. One reason the pardon took so long was because supporters linked it to a blanket rehabilitation of 22,000 Wehrmacht deserters, a move many conservatives opposed.
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_________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin
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Post subject: RE: Berlin memorial to Nazis
Posted: Jun 05, 2007 - 02:44 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Aug 26, 2006
Posts: 440
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This was actually quite a mess with the memorial. In Germany, such projects usually get widely discussed in public and a raw of hearings takes place before a decision is made -- everything properly announced in newspapers and by officials. Well, this project was discussed for more than a year, and after all involved parties (among them lesbians) have agreed upon the final version of the memorial (two men kissing endlessly, and a brass plate remembering lesbians, too), there was silence for many, many months. Then, out of nowhere, a feminist activist Alice Schwarzer has launched a very vitriolic campaign against the two artists, accusing them af mysogyny and suggesting gays were once agayin suppressing women. She demanded to change the concept of the memorial - a demand, very unusual under the circumstances. Unfortunately, in a fit of political correctness, some politicians joined into the hysteric discussion. Unfortunately, because the "compromise" achiewed now runs against historic evidence - no single women is known as being arrested for homosexuality - neither in the Nazi time, nor in the 24 years of §175 thereafter. In my opinion, this "compromise" trivializes the suffering of the male victims putting the lesbian "persecution" to the same stage. That's not equality, that's simply nonsense disrupting the initial concept of the memorial. Or does anybody seriously expect that straight male citizens will somehow be forced to combat their homophobia by a non-stop video of two women kissing eachother? They watch such videos on their home recorder. |
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Post subject: Germany
Posted: Jun 27, 2007 - 03:21 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
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Ger: adolescents given 'gay pick-up advice'
The usual suspects are in a tizzy
Quote:
German politicians have slammed role playing games being taught to school children on how to pick up a gay partner.
The Regional Institute for School and Media LISUM in Berlin has introduced the controversial exercises for school kids from 14 upwards as part of a way of reducing prejudice against homosexuals.
But the role-playing has outraged politicians.
Education spokesman for the liberal FDP party Mieke Senftleben has demanded the teaching materials be replaced and said: "Education about homosexuality, discrimination and intolerance is necessary.
"But I think having such topics on how to pick up gay men in role playing games for youths is completely wrong. We are talking about 14 year old pupils."
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_________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin
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Post subject: RE: Ger: adolescents given
Posted: Jun 27, 2007 - 04:28 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1754
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Does it occur to no one that the skills these 14 year olds can just as easily be turned to not picking up a Gay partner? I cannot count the times, just in the last couple years, when I have had to advise straight acquaintances to terminate certain behaviors because they were -- quite unintentionally -- proving to be "too effective" at picking up guys. While I fail to see what could possibly be amiss with a hidden talent for picking up guys, apparently doing so (more like 'nearly' doing so) is quite distressing to some straight people. In my experience, it generally comes down to a basic ignorance of certain (all right... make that "all") Gay customs. The straight boys just don't know what they are (how would they) and in their native arrogance presume that all people read body language (and explicit verbal statements) the same way.
Trust me... while the straight boys do have that casual insouciance going for them, they really do not know everything. Indeed, they sometimes seem not to know anything.
Like "do you want to hook up some time?" is not an appropriate way to phrase a casual invitation to "hang out." This statement not only could be reasonably interpreted as an invitation to something quite different, it almost certainly would be interpreted in a manner inconsistent with the statement's intent. This specific example is not hypothetical. I was indeed asked by a straight boy to explain just how it was that a Gay acquaintance of his got the mistaken impression that sex was on the agenda for the evening.
Nope... them straight boys can certainly use lessons on how not to pick up guys. Fourteen sounds like about a year or two too late to me.
Mind you... the Gay boys hardly need such lessons. These role playing games will not make getting dates any easier, nor will their absence make getting dates any more difficult. |
_________________ "If you want the freedom, the abilities, you have to find a way. Just don't be so passive. We are capable of so much more." -- Larry Kramer
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 27, 2007 - 04:06 PM
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Joined: Feb 22, 2007
Posts: 290
Location: USA
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I had a strange reaction to this story. And I think it's because of my advanced age.
It struck me immediately that we homos have a vested interest in the str8s *not* knowing the details of our pick-up rituals.
Hasn't anyone else ever tentatively asked a fellow-- who you thought *might be* gay-- some variation on the phrase, "Hey, dude, are you...umm. family, by any chance?" If he goes, 'huh?' you're able to safely say something like,"oh. never mind" and walk away with all your teeth.
If every str8 boy, hostile or not, has been taught all the codes, then we have no defenses. |
_________________ "That buzzing-noise means something. You don't get a buzzing-noise like that, just buzzing and buzzing, without its meaning something."
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 27, 2007 - 07:22 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1754
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LOL.
We'd change the codes, sweetie.
But don't toss ought that code book just yet. I have seen no evidence that the str8 boys even have the capacity to learn the Gay 'codes.' You have to keep in mind that they struggle with their own voluminous set of codes. From what I've seen of the str8 mating rituals, they are elaborate and obscure in the extreme (and, it would seem, really quite difficult to master). The str8 boys are, as a class, too busy trying to get laid to learn a second set of codes. |
_________________ "If you want the freedom, the abilities, you have to find a way. Just don't be so passive. We are capable of so much more." -- Larry Kramer
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 27, 2007 - 08:36 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
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This is an exceedingly good point, KT. |
_________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin
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Post subject: Re: RE: Ger: adolescents given
Posted: Jun 27, 2007 - 09:35 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
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Feral wrote:
Like "do you want to hook up some time?" is not an appropriate way to phrase a casual invitation to "hang out." This statement not only could be reasonably interpreted as an invitation to something quite different, it almost certainly would be interpreted in a manner inconsistent with the statement's intent. This specific example is not hypothetical. I was indeed asked by a straight boy to explain just how it was that a Gay acquaintance of his got the mistaken impression that sex was on the agenda for the evening.
LOL ... I know of a very similar situation. Said straight boy was aghast that he had unwittingly been being such a 'cock tease'... |
_________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Ger: adolescents given
Posted: Jun 28, 2007 - 01:11 AM
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Site Admin
Joined: Aug 26, 2006
Posts: 440
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Ah, of course the straights taught in "seduce a Gay" science can impose danger on Gay people - those straights could come to the idea to use their secuction skills for malicious purposes. Like, say, to hook up a Gay boy in a bar and rob him thereafter. Or to get the Gay man do lots of favours while receiving nothing in return but frivolous cock-teasing. Or simply to earn more tips as a waiter serving Gay customers.
But no worry: the course we read about is hurdly suitable to teach the straight kids the necessary practical skills. It's only theory - to be good in what they learn, they should go into bars and practically seduce a couple of Gay men. But this is obviously not the intent of the lectures. |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Ger: adolescents given
Posted: Jun 28, 2007 - 04:27 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1754
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LOL
In fact, once the true character of these 'roleplaying' exercises is known (if it ever is, outside of the school where they take place), I'm quite certain that it will turn out that nothing of the sort is taking place. |
_________________ "If you want the freedom, the abilities, you have to find a way. Just don't be so passive. We are capable of so much more." -- Larry Kramer
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Post subject: Gay German Aristocrat Bismarck Dead At 44
Posted: Jul 05, 2007 - 12:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 06, 2007 - 02:14 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
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The obit writer at The Telegraph has outdone himself...
Quote:
Count Gottfried von Bismarck, who was found dead on Monday aged 44, was a louche German aristocrat with a multi-faceted history as a pleasure-seeking heroin addict, hell-raising alcoholic, flamboyant waster and a reckless and extravagant host of homosexual orgies.
The great-great-grandson of Prince Otto, Germany's Iron Chancellor and architect of the modern German state, the young von Bismarck showed early promise as a brilliant scholar, but led an exotic life of gilded aimlessness that attracted the attention of the gossip columns from the moment he arrived in Oxford in 1983 and hosted a dinner at which the severed heads of two pigs were placed at either end of the table.
When not clad in the lederhosen of his homeland, he cultivated an air of sophisticated complexity by appearing in women's clothes, set off by lipstick and fishnet stockings. This aura of dangerous "glamour" charmed a large circle of friends and acquaintances drawn from the jeunesse dorée of the age; many of them knew him at Oxford, where he made friends such as Darius Guppy and Viscount Althorp and became an enthusiastic, rubber-clad member of the Piers Gaveston Society and the drink-fuelled Bullingdon and Loders clubs.
... and it only gets better...
Some folks have commented...
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I never thought I'd be so intensely jealous of an obituary.
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I used to write obits for the Chicago Tribune years ago....damn would I have loved to write that one. That is just freakin gold.
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I keep rereading the obit, and I find new things to envy each time. I hope SCIENCE can preserve his brain and transplant it into Hedonism-bot.
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_________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 06, 2007 - 05:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1754
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A nice obit to be sure.
Help me out here though...
Louche: Of questionable taste or morality.
Since the man is pretty much universally accorded the adjective "stylish" as well, I'm guessing that his taste was, if not impeccable, then pretty fucking good -- hardly 'questionable'. This leaves me to conclude that it was his "history as a pleasure-seeking heroin addict, hell-raising alcoholic, flamboyant waster and a reckless and extravagant host of homosexual orgies" that lays him open to this charge of 'questionable morality.'
So -- the question: since I don't find any of those things all that questionable in a moral sense (imprudent, to be sure, but prudence never gets you invited to any of the good parties), does that make me "louche" as well?
Keep in mind that no one calls me stylish (not ever) and my taste is most definitely questionable. My spousal-unit questions it quite often.
Might it even make me more louche than the celebrated Count Gottfried? |
_________________ "If you want the freedom, the abilities, you have to find a way. Just don't be so passive. We are capable of so much more." -- Larry Kramer
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 06, 2007 - 06:05 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
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Feral wrote:
So -- the question: since I don't find any of those things all that questionable in a moral sense (imprudent, to be sure, but prudence never gets you invited to any of the good parties), does that make me "louche" as well?
Sweetums, I suspect -- like me -- you were born "louche" by certain people's standards. But then, these are the same people that I like to use Rosie's put-down on: "You're not "normal"; you're just common....
(Remember Rosie from 365? I miss her.) |
_________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 06, 2007 - 06:16 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1754
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So what you're saying is the fact that I find an "extravagant host of homosexual orgies" to be a patron, a civic servant, an apt role model makes me louche? It it really of questionable morality to not question the morality of something so... pleasant?
What could possibly be questionable about homosexual orgies? Or is it the host's extravagance that's at issue? Sweetie -- one place where there simply is no room for cheapness is a homosexual orgy. Now, being the host of a cheap orgy -- that would be immoral.
I shudder at the thought.
(And who can forget Rosie -- the Princess of the Flame Warriors?) |
_________________ "If you want the freedom, the abilities, you have to find a way. Just don't be so passive. We are capable of so much more." -- Larry Kramer
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 06, 2007 - 06:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
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Feral wrote:
So what you're saying is the fact that I find an "extravagant host of homosexual orgies" to be a patron, a civic servant, an apt role model makes me louche?
Certainly not I. You are neglecting/ignoring part of what I wrote: "by certain people's standards." I find hedonists charming, amusing and endlessly fascinating; I am an amateur/hobbyist at it myself, and I can only admire the utter professionalism of the Count's efforts.
Quote:
(And who can forget Rosie -- the Princess of the Flame Warriors?)
That warms my heart to "hear" you say that. I still have hopes (if she still has her old e-mail) of enticing her here. |
_________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 06, 2007 - 06:49 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1754
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Alas, her warrior prowess will get little use -- the ways and means of troll-baiting have changed over the years. Perhaps she will enjoy the peace and quiet?
Or maybe she might prefer to open up a can of whoop-ass... as I recall, her politics are, in many ways, in diametrical opposition to mine.
By the by -- if you peer closely at this here smiley... ... just what is it that the mysterious round creatures are doing? Is this smiley louche? |
_________________ "If you want the freedom, the abilities, you have to find a way. Just don't be so passive. We are capable of so much more." -- Larry Kramer
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 06, 2007 - 07:09 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
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lol pre-vert |
_________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 06, 2007 - 12:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 22, 2007
Posts: 290
Location: USA
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You can just *see* the guys at the Telegraph passing this obit around the newsroom... "Charles, Charles, you simply *must* read what Basil's written about that dead German fellow. It's gorgeous!"
And I daresay Bismark would have approved. |
_________________ "That buzzing-noise means something. You don't get a buzzing-noise like that, just buzzing and buzzing, without its meaning something."
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Post subject:
Posted: Jul 06, 2007 - 04:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2006
Posts: 1195
Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
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Incidentally, further to:
Feral wrote:
Louche: Of questionable taste or morality.
My built-in Macintosh dictionary (I *do* so love my Mac!) gives the following definition:
Quote:
louche |loō sh |
adjective
disreputable or sordid in a rakish or appealing way : the louche world of the theater.
ORIGIN early 19th cent.: from French, literally ‘squinting.’
So, I dunno about the "squinting" part -- do you need to update your prescription, sweetums? -- but as far as "sordid in a rakish or appealing way", I would venture to guess that you have actually aspired to such qualities in past years, no?
Or are you going to tell us it was your pumpkin pie that ensnared your husband? |
_________________ "The dignity of an animal is measured by his capacity to revolt in the face of oppression." -- Mikhail Bakunin
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