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Feral
13 Post subject: Canada -- Gay Curriculum Under Siege  PostPosted: Sep 08, 2006 - 05:37 AM



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Gay Curriculum Under Siege

Quote:
(Vancouver, British Columbia) Conservative political action groups and the Roman Catholic Church are demanding the British Columbia government abandon plans to introduce a course next year that would include LGBT civics and material on gay marriage.

The course, called Social Justice, is still being developed by the Department of Education. It will examine a range of topics, including race, ethnicity, gender, and sexual orientation. The course, aimed at grade 12 students, would not be a requirement for students, but could be taken as one of the optional courses leading to graduation.

The leader of the province's Roman Catholics has assailed the course. Vancouver Archbishop Raymond Roussin says it could lead to "inappropriate and morally objectionable material" in the public school system.

In an editorial this week in province's Catholic newspaper Roussin says the course threatens the right of parents to control their children's education and calls on parents to pressure the government to abandon the project.

A political action group called Concerned Parents of British Columbia has begun lobbying school boards to pressure the government to drop the planned course.

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Feral
Post subject: BC School Board Settles -- Yet Again  PostPosted: Sep 09, 2006 - 03:33 AM



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School Board Settles Human Rights Complaint With Lesbian Moms

Quote:
(Surrey, British Columbia The Surrey, B.C., school board has settled with two lesbian mothers who complained about anti-gay rhetoric from speakers at two public meetings.

The board said in a statement it has changed its policies to protect against harassment and discrimination at future meetings within the Surrey public education system.

Kim Forster and Carol Pegura filed a discrimination complaint with the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal after the meetings, which discussed the use of kindergarten books depicting same-sex families.

Forster said Friday the board's position "will ensure that meetings in future would be tolerant and respectful of diversity, particularly of sexual orientation."

The mother of two said she was also pleased that the board endorsed an Education Ministry review "to ensure that there is inclusiveness and respect within the curriculum and program delivery."

Last May, the government struck a deal with gay activists Peter and Murray Corren to make course content more positive toward gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered issues.


So what's the deal with the schools in British Columbia?

What I'm seeing is a society that values the rule of law only as fine-sounding words on paper. Far better than having school board after school board avoiding Human Rights Tribunal judgements by settling with the complainant would be having the school boards of this province begin following the laws of Canada from the beginning.

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berto
Post subject: RE: BC School Board Settles -- Yet Again  PostPosted: Sep 09, 2006 - 04:41 AM



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*sigh*

It's Surrey. The town is sneered at by most of the rest of the province

as being a haven of red-neck "trailer trash" types. The reputation is

not undeserved, either. I could not *imagine* having to live there...

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Feral
Post subject: RE: BC School Board Settles -- Yet Again  PostPosted: Sep 09, 2006 - 04:59 AM



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True ... It's Surrey.

By itself, that would be ample excuse. All districts have regions that are perpetual embarrasments.

But this case is not an isolated incident. It's part of a greater pattern that includes the Corran case as well as Jubran v. School District No. 44.

I have to wonder how many other cases are before the courts and have yet to come to our attention.

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 12, 2007 - 11:21 PM



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When will queer youth be safe in BC schools?

Quote:
Opposition MLAs and education activists reacted with frustration and skepticism to what they're calling the BC government's new bare-bones safe schools policy, introduced Mar 29. They say the policy falls far short of protecting queer students and staff from intimidation and harassment on the grounds of real or perceived sexual orientation and gender identity.

...

"There is continual failure on the part of government and this has gone on for over a decade both [with] the NDP and the Liberals. The question is when will LGBT youth truly be safe in schools?" Chamberlain asks.

...

"What we have now is nothing. Just flapping gums and paper. It's not going to change the lives of kids."


When will LGBT youth truly be safe in schools? I suppose one could quibble about "safe from what." If we decline the invitation to a change of subject (since we know perfectly well what LGBT youth are not safe from today), the answer really is quite simple.

When they are in gay schools.

Would you care to speculate on just why it is that there is so much resistance to the otherwise very workable tactic of removing the homophobic elements from schools? It seems entirely straight-forward -- it there are homophobic bullies, expel them; if there are homophobic teachers, fire them. In their absence, the problem evaporates.

Here's my stab at it -- this tactic relies fairly heavily on the notion that there are only a few of these troublesome elements, that this is an operable cancer. The resistance comes from a bred-in-the-bone realization that the number of these people is not small, that such a program would affect the bulk of the population in the schools, both students and faculty.

An operable or a metastatic cancer -- that is the debate. Apart from repairing to a hospice to die in peace, doing nothing is rarely among the proposed solutions.

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vanrozenheim
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 13, 2007 - 12:20 AM
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Feral wrote:
Here's my stab at it -- this tactic relies fairly heavily on the notion that there are only a few of these troublesome elements, that this is an operable cancer. The resistance comes from a bred-in-the-bone realization that the number of these people is not small, that such a program would affect the bulk of the population in the schools, both students and faculty.


Yes, let there be 80% of the fellow students be gay-friendly, there are still 20% left who hate you and will make everything possible to turn your life to hell. The real percentage might look not as optimistic. Those fellows who are smart enough not to bully gay students physically, will still create a hostile environment for them to drive them into discomfort and isolation. The driving force for teenage suicides is often not any direct violence in the schools, but a more or less subtle obstraction and hostility from "school friends".

Even in countries with practically unknown physical bullying (such as Japan) the gay teenage suicides are very frequent, as we read from this straight woman's notice:

Quote:
Japanese society and Japanese individuals aren't actively hostile to gays [..] but the social dynamic is different in Japan. One can be out to friends, in some cases, but my students agree that if a man's company found out he was gay, while he probably wouldn't be fired, he would definitely never be promoted and his co-workers would socially ostracize him.

This is a very frightening thought for Japanese, for whom social inclusion is extremely important. Bullying is considered a big problem in Japanese schools, and the most common form of 'bullying' is one in which most or all of a class ostracizes one child. In America this wouldn't really be considered 'bullying,' but in Japan, students have committed suicide because of it. It's a very big deal. Gay Japanese know that the more out they get, the closer they get to that.


Apart from creating the truly perfect world, own schools for gay students would help.
 
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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 13, 2007 - 03:17 AM



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Quote:
schools for gay students would help


Just a guess... yes. I have not heard that there is any homophobic bullying to speak of at the Harvey Milk School. Outside of it... this I have heard of. Who, in an almost entirely gay school would be the perpetrators of such acts? One might imagine that the whole panoply of teen-aged problems might accompany the teenagers through the school doors, but I have not heard that this is the case at all.

This is an expensive proposition though, providing gay schools for gay students. Surely less extreme measures might be effective. Perhaps they would not be AS effective as separate schools, but a less lethal environment is, at the end of the day, an environment with fewer corpses in it.

Fine... let the schools operate on this cancer, if they will. I am willing to test the hypothesis that it is only a few, a small handful, of criminally inclined persons that are at the root of this problem. Remove them. I don't for one minute believe that this hypothesis is correct. My prediction for the experiment is not a rosy one. Removing the gay students will, I think, prove to be the only effective solution.

I will open champagne and applaud until my hands are bruised if I am demonstrated to be wrong on this point.

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 13, 2007 - 07:54 PM



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vanrozenheim wrote:
Quote:
Japanese society and Japanese individuals aren't actively hostile to gays [..] but the social dynamic is different in Japan. One can be out to friends, in some cases, but my students agree that if a man's company found out he was gay, while he probably wouldn't be fired, he would definitely never be promoted and his co-workers would socially ostracize him.

This is a very frightening thought for Japanese, for whom social inclusion is extremely important. Bullying is considered a big problem in Japanese schools, and the most common form of 'bullying' is one in which most or all of a class ostracizes one child. In America this wouldn't really be considered 'bullying,' but in Japan, students have committed suicide because of it. It's a very big deal. Gay Japanese know that the more out they get, the closer they get to that.


Apart from creating the truly perfect world, own schools for gay students would help.


I have thought on this particular example. The difference in cultures makes it somewhat more difficult to propose solutions. I would not, as it happens, consider ostracism 'bullying.' It seems to me quite different. Many people who are gay find themselves ostracized to some extent. It may well be that all gays are ostracized to at least some degree. The way to deal with this is, on its face, fairly simple -- replace that which is missing. Doing so is not so easy, and doing so thoroughly is really quite difficult. If this or that social structure will not have you, find or create one that will. Some might go so far as to say that even familial social structures can be replaced -- I've seen it done quite successfully on a number of occasions.

Gay schools will, I think, likely solve this specific issue even in Japan. Whether gay Japanese kids shall find something else to shun each other over is another question that I could not possibly answer.

Mind you, I am not of the opinion that expelling homophobic bullies from the schools will solve anything but the problem of homophobic bullying within the schools. I'm quite certain that it will. So too will removing the gay students to a safe environment -- to me it is just a transitive re-phrasing of the question. Twenty-five minus twenty-four is quite the same thing as twenty-five minus 1 in principle. The only real reason to concern oneself with the order of the digits is when you move the mathematics into the material world. It is simply easier to physically move one than it is twenty-four.

The idea that this separation would not solve anything in the greater society is ... well ... bizarre. Of course it will not. Why ever would anyone think it would? When it is dinner time and I prepare food, I am under the (very correct) impression that eating it will solve my hunger. I do not suffer from the delusion that eating dinner will solve world hunger, nor am I inclined to entertain criticism that it will not. When I am hungry, I do not look for solutions to world hunger. When our kids are being tormented and abused in schools, I do not seek the solution to heterosexual homophobia. Anyone who's read many of my posts would know quite well that I don't even consider expelling homophobic bullies from schools to be a reasonable response to what is a criminal justice matter. If society will not arrest these people for their assaults and harassment today when they are young, then society will arrest them for their rapes and murders when they are older -- 'round about when the problem starts to affect most of society rather than just the 'mos.

For myself, I have better things to do than sit around dreaming up schemes to perfect heterosexual society. I will leave that to the heterosexuals (though with no expectations that they will do anything of the kind). Separating the gay kids from the straight kids in schools will solve a number of problems. Separating the gay people from the straight people in the world will solve even more.

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berto
Post subject: Ottawa: Capital Xtra to stay in city buildings  PostPosted: Apr 25, 2007 - 05:41 PM



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The "TOTC" (Think Of The Children) Brigade must be crushed...

Quote:
The City of Ottawa has quietly created a new policy that prevents the local gay and lesbian community newspaper from being removed from city buildings despite a complaint about suggestive ads inside.

Gareth Kirkby, managing editor and associate publisher of the Capital Xtra, told CBC News on Tuesday that the city did not announce the new policy, but he learned of it through a report sent to the paper's lawyer from the city's legal department.

The report said the paper comes nowhere close to the legal definition of obscene and any attempt to restrict the paper's distribution would likely be unsuccessful.

[...]

Kirkby said he was happy the city came around weeks after his paper was temporarily removed from a recreation centre in response to a parent's complaint.

"This should never have been an issue," Kirby said. "And it should not have dragged on for seven weeks. It's absolutely absurd." Kirkby argued earlier that the availability of the paper was protected by the right to freedom of expression.

The Capital Xtra was temporarily removed from a recreation centre in February after a man complained about the suggestive advertising inside.

In February, a man complained to a city councillor that the paper was not appropriate for a community centre.

He had picked up the paper while his eight-year-old son was practising basketball, and said he was disturbed by ads that featured scantily clad men in suggestive poses with sexual words in the background.

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berto
Post subject: Canada  PostPosted: Aug 09, 2007 - 04:30 PM



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Canadians can't pat selves on back over queer rights

Despite the law, societal attitudes lag behind, says gay rights group

Quote:
With same-sex marriage a protected right in Canada, it can be tempting to regard the United States' continuing political struggle over gay issues as painfully behind the times. But a recent string of intolerant events and blatant displays of homophobia in this country suggests that Canada may not be as progressive as Canadians believe.

"Everyone likes to think that we're so far ahead of the Americans," said Helen Kennedy, executive director of the LGBT advocacy group Egale Canada.

"But we're constantly being reminded through human-rights complaints that we have a long way to go in Canada."

In Ontario alone, 68 complaints were made to the province's human rights commission on the grounds of sexual orientation between April 1, 2006, and March 31, 2007, with $243,599.23 paid out in monetary damages.

Other reminders of discrimination have been coming regularly of late.

The town council in Truro, N.S., voted last week against flying the rainbow flag at town hall during pride activities.

Last month, the Quebec Human Rights Commission awarded $10,000 to a gay couple who were being harassed by young people in their neighbourhood.

And in Saskatchewan, the mother of an 11-year-old boy who was kidnapped and sexually assaulted last year by pedophile Peter Whitmore recently told a sentencing hearing she is pulling her son out of school because a classmate keeps calling him "faggot."


How about just kicking the harrasser out of school?! WTH is *wrong* with the administrators at that school?!

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Rain
Post subject: RE: Canadians can  PostPosted: Aug 09, 2007 - 04:50 PM



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I'm always surprised by the attitudes of people who think that because a law has been passed everything's right again. Laws do not change people's minds. Thousands of years of anti-gay indoctrination cannot be legislated away.

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vanrozenheim
Post subject: RE: Canadians can  PostPosted: Aug 09, 2007 - 06:43 PM
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Actually, the laws *do* change attitudes - for this they are created. However, the laws must be enforced, so the people learn to respect the laws. Here in Germany we got an antidiscrimination legislation recently - and believe it or not, lots of people got much, much nicer. Not that their minds have changed, but they learned to respect (or fear) the law. The most recent story from a friend of my was that his landlord didn't want to show his flat neither to lesbians nor to a turkish man, but all of the sudden changed his mind when he was made aware of the possible civil consequences. Oh yes, alone the hint was sufficient to make the man more polite and considerate.

Laws, which are *not* or sluggishly enforced, do not achieve much. As long as religious fundamentalists receive governmental support and are respected members of society, there is little hope that Gays will be treated with respect.
 
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Rain
Post subject: RE: Canadians can  PostPosted: Aug 10, 2007 - 06:10 AM



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I don't know about changing attitudes--they do change behavior, if only out of fear of legal retribution. Mindsets are harder to change and may take generations. Older people go to the grave with hard-held beliefs no matter how wrong they may be. Younger people are quicker to view the folly of their elders and rebel against archaic ways of thinking.

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Feral
Post subject: Canadians still have 'a long way to go' on gay issues  PostPosted: Aug 14, 2007 - 08:55 PM



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Canadians still have 'a long way to go' on gay issues

Quote:
In an effort to reinvigorate the discussion, Egale has invited the leaders of Ontario's provincial parties to an LGBT debate on Sept. 9, although only the Green Party has so far accepted the offer.

"We want to see what they are going to do to address some of our concerns as a community," said Ms. Kennedy, who hopes to play host to similar debates in other provinces and among federal party leaders.


The article has a great deal to say, most of it said elsewhere (and said better, at that). Ms. Kennedy's rhetoric puzzles me. Perhaps it's that famous Canadian 'politeness.' I'd need all manner of prescription drugs to describe the situation of Gays in most parts of Canada in such calm and bland terms. Whatever. It's this last bit that interests me. It, you see, has not been said elsewhere. A debate? EGALE wants to see what they are going to do? Ummmmm... nothing?

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vanrozenheim
Post subject: RE: Canadians still have  PostPosted: Aug 16, 2007 - 09:44 AM
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Quote:
And in Saskatchewan, the mother of an 11-year-old boy who was kidnapped and sexually assaulted last year by pedophile Peter Whitmore recently told a sentencing hearing she is pulling her son out of school because a classmate keeps calling him "faggot."


How about pulling the classmate from school? The school certainly allows disciplinary measures against harassing. It's all true, social attitudes must be changed, too - but what about the government following the existing laws and enforcing the necessary changes?
 
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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 17, 2007 - 04:35 AM



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Is Wikipedia becoming a hub for propaganda?
Tracking website shows thousands of changes to articles originated from federal government offices


Quote:
Is Wikipedia becoming a hub for propaganda?
Tracking website shows thousands of changes to articles originated from federal government offices


A website that tracks the origins of millions of edits to Wikipedia, an online encyclopedia, shows that computers inside federal government offices are responsible for more than 11,000 changes to articles, including some significant edits of entries about parliamentarians.

WikiScanner, a website launched on Monday by a U.S. graduate student, shows that changes to articles originated from computers inside a variety of government offices, such as the House of Commons, Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade, Environment Canada and the Auditor-General of Canada. The site, however, does not reveal the identity of the individual who made the edits.

...

One user, with an IP address that points to a government office in Ottawa, removed Wikipedia's entire entry on homosexuality several times on July 20, 2005, and replaced it with such sentences as: "Homosexuality is evil," "Homosexuality is wrong according to the Bible" and "Homosexuals need our help and counselling." The IP address responsible for that edit continued to deface the entry on homosexuality a total of 24 times between July, 2005, and July, 2006, and also edited more than 500 other Wikipedia articles on topics such as epidemiology, Ebola and Deal or No Deal (a TV game show starring a Canadian host).


http://wikiscanner.virgil.gr/

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Aug 19, 2007 - 07:50 AM



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Growing up gay in Orillia; Hostility, violence not uncommon for teens who 'come out'

Quote:
It's been about a year since the attacks stopped, but Alice can't shake the memories.

The 14-year-old, whose name has been changed to protect her identity, was beaten up repeatedly while walking home from Twin Lakes Secondary School. The reason for the violence, she said, was her openness about her bisexuality.

"They'd call me a fag and flamer and start making fun of me," she recalled.

She said her attackers were males and females who followed her off school grounds and assaulted her.

"Nobody ever stopped (to help) or said anything."

...

Youths who want a peer to talk to about sexual orientation can call the Lesbian Gay Bi Trans Youth Line.

It is a toll-free, provincewide phone line for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, transsexual, two-spirited, queer and questioning young people.

The number is 1-800-268-9688, and the website is www.youthline.ca.


In this case, "provincewide" means the Province of Ontario.

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berto
Post subject: SSM in Toronto  PostPosted: Aug 19, 2007 - 02:02 PM



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Now you see 'em, now you don't

Quote:
Last June, Reuters announced that only a single Canadian same-sex marriage was performed in Toronto so far this year, compared to 107 last year. The anti-gay crowd has, of course, framed the article, surrounded it with candles and gold, and trotted it about the country chanting something along the lines of “I told you so!”

Why, just this month Barabara Kay—an editorialist for the National Post—declared: “The conclusion they can fairly draw from [Toronto’s] stats is that gay marriage was never more than an ideological symbol.”

Now, ignoring for a moment that it doesn’t bloody-well matter how few Canadians apply for same-sex marriages—it’s about equality, not quantity—it turns out that Reuters got the statistics very wrong.

As of early August, 182 of the same-sex marriages issued in Toronto since January were registered to Canadian addresses, not just a lonely one; and, last year, 518 Canadian gay couples got hitched in the city, not 107.


And as for Barabara Kay — The conclusion you can fairly draw from her screed is that she was never more than an ideological tool. Or maybe just a plain, ordinary run-of-the-mill tool...

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Feral
Post subject: RE: SSM in Toronto  PostPosted: Aug 20, 2007 - 12:01 AM



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Well... now Ms Kay may amend her remarks to read "The conclusion they can fairly draw from [Toronto’s] stats is that gay marriage was never an ideological symbol.”

I shall wait with baited breath.

No... I'm getting dizzy already. Maybe I'll just go eat donuts and ignore her.

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vanrozenheim
Post subject: RE: SSM in Toronto  PostPosted: Aug 20, 2007 - 02:58 PM
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One either suports equal rights or does not. Any statistics are irrelevant, whether they show marriage being popular or not an attitude among Gays in Canada. Who cares how many Canadian Gays actually exercised their right to "die for their country", when they are acqnowledged equally apt for this by their fellow citizens? Do the statistics about all the dead US Gays killed in Iraq somehow mellow the outrageously insulting policy of the US government on the same issue? Nope. The laws of the country only say something about the declared values of the society, no more and no less. If a society writes in stone that Gays are sub-human creatures who have no rights, it helps little that the actual economic realities often allow us to lead a self-determined life. Because it is then achieved against this society and its values.
 
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