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Feral
Post subject: Poland  PostPosted: Sep 20, 2006 - 12:31 AM



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Poland's president says his views on gays are misunderstood

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Polish president Lech Kaczynski, a staunch Roman Catholic, said his views on issues like traditional national values and gay people are misunderstood. Kaczynski, of the socially conservative Law and Justice Party, took office in December on pledges that included making sure that Poland's traditional Roman Catholic values were not overwhelmed by the general European liberal viewpoint. Poland, a former Soviet bloc country, joined the European Union in 2004.

"I am aware that often the things I say are not in line with the European correctness," Kaczynski said in an interview Monday with the Associated Press in New York. "Even more, I am ascribed views that are not really mine."

...

He has also been criticized for speaking against same-sex marriage. He says property and inheritance issues for gay couples can be settled by lawyers.

Talking to the AP, he defended his views. "I do not support the turning back of the wheel of history," Kaczynski said, noting he is for equal rights for women and is "not an enemy" of gay people. "I only think that we cannot say that there are two equal cultures," he said. "If we said so, that would mean we are saying that our fate is extinction."

"I have a certain fear here, but that does not mean that I intend to persecute anyone, that I intend to prevent him from living, from making a career, from working, from being a soldier."

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Last edited by Feral on Mar 28, 2007 - 05:01 AM; edited 1 time in total
 
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vanrozenheim
Post subject: RE: Poland  PostPosted: Sep 20, 2006 - 08:48 PM
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Oh, now it seems that we have been constantly misunderstanding him over the past few years. Good that he is now afraid of bad publicity, but even better would be if he got rid of his coalition partners.

Lech Kaczynski is actually not as stupid politician as Moscow's Luzkow, and his ideas on nations in united Europe are partially very valueable. It is very sad he is such a piece of *** when it comes to issues of the gay people. As far as gay people are concerned - "upon his deeds he will be judged".
 
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Vizier
Post subject: RE: Poland  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2006 - 10:11 AM



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The Kaczynski twins are both morons. They constantly hack on all things gay, German, and think that "Greater Poland" still exists and is of any consequence in the world. Poland could play a much larger role on the European stage if it would get rid of these two clowns and get away from the Catholic church, which is wolfsbane for most of the free world.

On this rant, if Pope Benedicktus (sic) would come to terms with the fact that 90% of his priests are gay, he might make more friends. Only Bavarians love him (as witnessed by the recent disgusting displays upon his "glorious return" to Regensburg which cost the average German taxpayer millions of Euros), everyone else knows he is an anachronism who has outlived any possible usefulness. Just thinking that by simply defunding itself and transferring its vast global wealth to African and South American nations the Catholic church could with a single stroke of a pen wipe out more than 80% of the world's poverty makes me cringe.

. Twisted Evil
 
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vanrozenheim
Post subject: RE: Poland  PostPosted: Oct 09, 2006 - 11:14 AM
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Dear, they are NOT morons. They know exactly what they are doing, and in their strategy gays are the perfect "enemies of the people" which can be victimized. It is a very simple political game - pick out a particular part of the population and make them responsible for everything bad what can't be already explained by blaming Germans.

It seems to me they didn't asses the possible reaction from other EU member countries, and were honestly surprized that some reaction will follow. Because, in Poland it was/is still normally to see gays as unworthy creatures which are highly unprobable to receive any arm help from anybody else in the society.
 
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Feral
Post subject: RE: Poland  PostPosted: Nov 08, 2006 - 12:41 AM



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Polish President warns against "gay culture"

Quote:
Whilst on a visit to Britain, The President of Poland, Lech Kaczyński has spoken out against "gay culture," warning that it may cause the death of heterosexuality within Europe.

...

Quizzed on his stance on gay rights by Kirsty Wark, Mr Kaczyński said: "I haven't changed my position at all." Adding: "There always have been and always will be homosexuals in Poland, they forge careers for themselves they are active in society."

Controversially, he went on to say: "That's one thing, but as for what's called 'gay culture', it can never be seen as an alternative to heterosexual culture.

"If a 'gay culture' were to be an accepted alternative it could mean that especially here in europe, our heterosexual culture would disappear."

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Feral
Post subject: RE: Poland  PostPosted: Nov 16, 2006 - 02:22 AM



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ILGCN Condemns Polish President’s Fear of Gay Culture

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WARSAW, November 16, 2006 – Polish President Lech Kaczynski’s comments to the BBC’s Newsnight programme while visiting London that gay culture could make “heterosexual culture disappear” is dangerous, paranoic homophobia, says the ILGCN (International Lesbian & Gay Cultural Network).

“Have Sappho’s poetry, Oscar Wilde’s plays, Tchaikovski’s music, Nijinski’s dancing, Michelangelo’s sculptures or Caravaggio’s painting devoured the world’s culture – or enriched it," asks Bill Schiller, secretary general of the ILGCN Information Secretariat in Stockholm, and Łukasz Pałucki, ILGCN cultural ambassador of Poland, in a joint statement.

“This verbal attack on gay culture is just as ridiculous as saying that the blues and spirituals of black America, or that the gypsy flamenco or the chanting of the reindeer-raising Sami of the north are ferociously storming the white man’s cultural barricades,” says the ILGCN.

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 22, 2007 - 06:18 AM



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Polish president's homophobia outrages the Irish

Quote:
Remarks about homosexuality during a state visit to Ireland have caused more trouble for the controversial President of Poland.

Speaking to an audience at Dublin Castle on the final day of his three day visit, Lech Kaczynski said that the promotion of homosexuality would lead to the eventual destruction of the human race.

...

"If that kind of approach to sexual life were to be promoted on a grand scale, the human race would disappear.

"Imagine what grand changes would occur in mores if the traditional links between men and women were set aside."

...

At Dublin Castle yesterday, President Kaczynski claimed that he is not a homophobe.

"Among my personal friends there are individuals affected by this different sexual orientation, or homosexuality, but they enjoy full rights, they are able to move forward in various spheres of life," he said, according to the Independent.

"This is a tendency, an orientation that has always existed, I don't know why.

"I do not intend to combat it, to force them into therapy. But at the same time, I don't think it's appropriate that they should promote their sexual orientation."


This man is astonishingly consistent for a politician. It's remarkable.

I am unclear, though, on what Mr. Kaczynski thinks the meaning of the word "homophobe" is. He repeatedly denies being one (Hey-- he even has gay friends, if you can believe it) and then proceeds to demonstrate quite nicely the very picture of a homophobe.

Thanks to his consistency, I think I may have discovered the root of our marked difference of opinion: Mr. Kaczynski's repeated use of the word "promote."

What is this "promote"? Is he under the delusion that I have some mystic power to transform happy heterosexuals into homosexuals with a few ad campaigns? That doesn't even work well with soft drinks. There is no such power. Further, if there really was such a power and I had it, can anyone really imagine that I would transform the entire world in this way? Surely I would start with the best looking straight boys, continue until it bored me, and then stop. The human race would be in no danger of extinction if I had the power to turn people 'gay' with the wave of a magic wand. Mr. Kaczynski, for instance, would be entirely safe from such experiments. In fact, if the rumors about his brother are accurate, I'd be inclined to do the world the favor of turning him straight.

There is no "promoting homosexuality." If you are not gay, you just aren't gay and you are welcome to your state. If you are gay, you always were gay and the straight people should leave you be.

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vanrozenheim
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 22, 2007 - 05:54 PM
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Oh, you are probably wrong on turning [fake-]straight boys into gays. Mr. Kaczynski and the various "concerned" mothers and fathers know very well, that social oppression, threat of violence and criminal persecution very well can prevent closeted homosexual boys from living a live of happy gay individuals. The strategy of our enemies is as simple as it is effective: they want nothing else than pressing a young homosexual as long as possible into heterosexual relationships - which mostly indeed result in creation of some off-spring. Any suicides, wrecked marriages and drug/alcohol addiction are considered as collateral damages in their battle for the holy goal of breeding sweet little babies. Clearly, any true informations about homosexuality and homosexuals is seen then as "promoting homosexuality", because it overturnes the costruction of lies and oppression imposed upon our unhappy closeted brethrein by their parents and society. Thus it is clear that homophobes have every reason to fear free access to informations and positive reporting of gay culture - indeed, some fake-straight boys might gain enough self-consciousness to come out as gay.

Thus, for the sake of our closeted gay brethreigns: LET'S GO ON WITH GAY PROPAGANDA! GAY IS GOOD! PROLIFERATION OF HOMOSEXUALITY IS GOOD AS WELL!
 
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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 22, 2007 - 08:38 PM



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Quote:
PROLIFERATION OF HOMOSEXUALITY IS GOOD AS WELL!


Certainly I know some straight boys who would flourish if they could only become gay -- they are quite unhappy and dissatisfied with their straight existence. Sadly, they just can't. Only the gay boys get to be gay, and the bi boys get to do as pleases them best. The straight boys though... they are stuck that way. It's not their fault -- its genetic or something. Personally, I think they might consider conforming better to gay cultural norms and just do that straight thing on the down low... they'd have a whole lot more fun. It's not like anyone actually CARES who they have sex with.

I hardly understand the apprehension that straight people profess about the proliferation of the species. Imagine... a species with an exponential population growth curve that frets about its ability to breed. Rolling Eyes It's not rocket science. Any school boy can do it. In fact, all together too many school boys in my town HAVE managed this feat and the government is in a bit of a tizzy over it. They even managed to accomplish this feat despite a whole host of cultural prohibitions on the practice.

No, I'm afraid the people of Poland are being led by a man with very peculiar ideas. If gay culture somehow managed to take the entire planet by storm, I dare say there would be more babies, not fewer.

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 14, 2007 - 05:05 AM



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Poland's Giertych wants to ban gay groups from schools

Quote:
Warsaw- Roman Giertych, Poland's controversial Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Education, is preparing legislation to sanction school principals who allow members of gay rights organisations to speak with pupils, a Polish education ministry spokesperson confirmed Tuesday.

Giertych recently stirred controversy in Heidelberg, Germany, during a meeting of EU education ministers when he openly criticized abortion rights and what he termed "homosexual propaganda".

The government of conservative Law and Justice (PIS) Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski has distanced itself from the Giertych's comments, insisting they were his personal opinions and did not reflect government policy.

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berto
Post subject: EU to investigate Polish anti-gay school law  PostPosted: Mar 21, 2007 - 11:31 AM



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MEPs keen to investigate Polish anti-gay school law

Quote:
... The European Parliament's committee on civil liberties discussed the Polish ideas on Tuesday (20 March) and decided to launch a study into the compatibility of such legislation with EU rules, if the bill is ever officially submitted to the Polish lower house.

[...]

The committee would like the EU parliament's legal services to probe any Polish bill on two grounds, firstly to see if it is compatible with European anti-discrimination norms and secondly to see if it violates European norms on freedom of expression. [Dutch green MEP Kathalijne] Buitenweg and other MEPs are also preparing oral questions to the European Commission and the German EU presidency for the 10-11 April plenary session in Strasbourg.

[...]

Ms Buitenweg -- herself an antithesis to the current Polish government -- went on to say that "there is a dark undercurrent in Polish politics and society at present, which seeks to promote discrimination of minorities and the disregard of civil rights" touching upon wider concerns over Poland's political drift.

[...]

Last month, the League of Polish Families also gave voice to anti-Semitic tendencies in its ranks, with party member and MEP Maciej Giertych -- who also happens to be [Education Minister] Roman Giertych's father -- publishing a booklet saying Jews are biologically different from gentiles and create their own ghettos. Neither his son nor the Polish government made any effort to distance themselves from his views, despite an outcry in Brussels.

The Polish education minister also has wildly unrealistic views on abortion, proposing in recent weeks that Poland should push for abortion to be made illegal across the EU in a statement that went too far even for prime minister Kaczynski, who made him publicly retract his words.

Abortion is illegal in Poland except on medical grounds, but even this is hard to secure: the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg awarded €25,000 damages on Tuesday to Polish woman Alicja Tysiac, who was declined a legal abortion even though the birth made her all-but-lose her eyesight.


As Fer says, those who oppose equal human rights for queers are evil, and that evil invariably manifests itself in other forms as well. These last three paragraphs are just another example of this.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 23, 2007 - 08:54 AM



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Like Poland needs help to be homophobic...

Quote:
Meanwhile, Poland will be invaded by a host of U.S. Christian Right activists when a World Congress of Families (WCF) is held in Warsaw on May 11-13, and President Kaczynski -- who twice banned Gay Pride marches when he was mayor of Warsaw -- is both Honorary Patron of this so-called Congress and, it was announced last week, will give the opening speech there.


At that other place, Rufus Poulson adds:

"The WCF is the brainchild of the paleoconservative Rockford Institute, which describes itself as committed to spreading the values of "Western Christendom" and is based in Rockford, Illinois; and of its front-group, the Howard Center, headed by Allan Carlson, former executive director of the Rockford Institute."

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 28, 2007 - 05:11 AM



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Polish Politico Proposes More Gay Bans

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Things in Poland are getting nastier, if you can believe it. You may recall Lurch-like Education Minister Roman Giertych proposed banning gay teachers and, in fact, any gay discussion from the nation's schools - a move that's irked the European Parliament. Well, now, a representative from the "children's rights" ministry has suggested compiling an entire list of gay-verboten professions.

Writing in Poland's Dziennik, Ewa Sowińska insists, We must prepare a list of jobs, where homosexual people will be banned". This move, of course, would stop the sissie scourge, thus giving Poland a step up in the contest for worst human rights violator in history.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 02, 2007 - 10:16 PM



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Polish ex-president returns to politics to fight far right

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Former Polish President Alexander Kwasniewski says he is returning to politics to fight the far right agenda of the government that includes a bill to ban all discussion of homosexuality in schools. "Today. you can see the take-over of the state by the governing party, the party taking control of areas which should be part of a democratic state or civil society -- you can see it everywhere," Kwasniewski told Poland's news agency.

"I'm referring to the foreign ministry, the administration of justice, the prosecutor's office, police, public media. This is why I'm returning. The situation is becoming so difficult that all hands must be on deck," Kwasniewski said.

The former president is an ex-communist turned left-wing moderate social democrat. Considered one of the country's most respected politicians, Kwasniewski left the presidency in late 2005 after serving two consecutive terms in office.

He particularly singled out the ruling League of Polish Families' Deputy Prime Minister Roman Giertych who proposed the anti-gay bill to fight "homosexual propaganda".

The bill has been fast tracked by the Polish government and is about to be introduced in Parliament with expectations it will quickly pass.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Apr 30, 2007 - 07:52 PM



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Gay MEP questions Tory tactics on homophobia probe vote

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Labour MEP Michael Cashman has strongly condemned the actions of Conservative MEPs who sided with extreme-right political groups in an attempt to suppress a debate on homophobia.

On Wednesday the European Parliament voted to send a fact-finding mission to Poland to investigate a new law that seek to suppress discussion of gay issues in schools.

The extreme-right Union for Europe of the Nations (UEN) Group attempted to suppress the debate by tabling a procedural motion, which Conservative MEPs chose to support.

Konrad Szymanski, who leads the Polish Justice and Law party in the parliament, said the debate should be abandoned as it was attempting to discuss legislation that was not on the Polish government's official agenda.

[...]

Mr Cashman represents the West Midlands and is one of only two out gay MEPs. He told PinkNews.co.uk:

"This is just another example of the Conservatives saying one thing, and then doing something completely different.

"Despite David Cameron¹s rhetoric it is clear that the Tories have not changed from the days when they were introducing discriminatory legislation in this country such as Clause 28. I was appalled to see (Tory MEP) Philip Bradbourn vote with the far-right UEN Group on Wednesday and I would like to know how he can justify his actions.

"Having tried to suppress the debate yesterday, the Conservative whip instructed Tory MEPs to register an abstention on the issue."

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: May 04, 2007 - 12:19 PM



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European court blast Polish pride ban

Quote:
The European Court of Human Rights ruled Thursday that Warsaw Mayor Lech Kaczynski in 2005 acted illegally and discriminatory in banning a gay pride march in the Polish capital.

Polish gay and lesbian organizations filed a lawsuit against Kaczynski, who is now Poland's President, after he banned the 2005 parade.

[...]

In its ruling the European Court cited three articles of the European Convention on Human Rights that Kaczynski had violated -- the right to freedom of association and assembly, the right to live free of discrimination and the right to an effective remedy. 

This is the fist case of a banned LGBT Pride march being challenged in the court.

"We are pleased that the Court firmly and unanimously confirmed that the freedom of assembly and expression belongs to all, said Patricia Prendiville, Executive Director of the International Lesbian and Gay Association - Europe. "There is a significant case-law already established by the Court in regards to freedom of assembly and now we know that the same principles are equally applicable to LGBT citizens."

Several other cases of banned pride marches also have been filed with the court, including one against the mayor of Moscow.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 03, 2007 - 08:52 PM



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The Warsaw Business Journal castigates Polish leaders

Quote:
Attitudes towards homosexuals, to people of other nationalities and races are usually strong reflectors of the state of democracy in a given country. If, however, the very rulers of a country express views which can be interpreted by various social and minority groups as discriminatory - as is the case in Poland - it means that the authorities are in danger of moving beyond the edge of freedom and tolerance. Moreover, the present Polish authorities are actively trying to bring more and more spheres of civil life under their control.

Recent legislation is giving the government more and more control over areas which have enjoyed an admirable degree of autonomy up to now. These include the judiciary as well as foundations concerned with scientific and educational issues, rural development and the advance of democracy, among others. This is because Poland's coalition government has decided that soon it will install its own people in key positions in these foundations, a decision which will mark the end of the foundations' independence.

Sneering at Europe

Deputy Prime Minister Giertych's homophobic statements were uttered in a specific setting. The European Union has declared 2007 to be the European Year of Equal Opportunities for All. The Union has decided that the main aim of the European Year 2007 will be to raise awareness about the European legislation in force concerning non-discrimination and to enable communities which are victims of discrimination to exercise their rights.

What does Minister Giertych have to say about this? With a curled lip he announced that he would not admit anyone into Polish schools who "would spread gay propaganda, on the same basis that I would not admit into schools those who would want to spread Nazi or communist propaganda." It's certain that many Polish pupils saw this on television. Will they start to think that a gay friend from their class is as dangerous as a platoon of SS soldiers?

Polish intellectuals, politicians from the democratic and liberal opposition and representatives of NGOs are seeking support in Brussels for their activities, which oppose intolerance and limitations on civil liberties in Poland - so far to little effect. Deputy Prime Minister Giertych and other activists from his circle have by no means refrained from making their extreme statements.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 20, 2007 - 06:51 PM



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Polish homosexuals flee persecution in exodus to UK

Quote:
Polish gay rights groups say thousands of homosexuals have fled the country to the UK to escape increasing persecution.

Robert Biedron, a left wing party activist and head of the Polish Foundation Against Homophobia, said "huge numbers" of Polish gays had now fled the country following the rise to power of the current right-wing conservative government. He said: "It is incredible. The Polish gay community has just moved away because of the climate of fear and persecution.

"Most of the people I know are now in England because of the current political situation. Not for economic reasons, but because of the persecution of homosexuals going on here.

"It’s impossible for gays to be themselves in Poland. Around two million Poles have left the country seeking work and thousands of gays are joining them.


Meanwhile, the Polish police are building up a database of 'known homosexuals'...

Quote:
The police have also been compiling a database on gays and the gay community in Poland which although illegal under EU law, is apparently being done as part of a police investigation into a bomb threat two years ago by a gay man.

He had reportedly identified himself as a member of the gay community angry when a gay rights march was banned in Warsaw.

"The Police are not allowed to catalogue ‘homosexual data’ but it’s enough to look into the police investigation associated with the bomb in order to establish a list of names and addresses," said Ewa Kulesza, a former personal data protection general inspector.


I wonder when they're going to start checking people into Auschwitz again...

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 20, 2007 - 08:39 PM



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They left the country? Good. They are safer then. Not safe (it is claimed they went in large numbers to the UK, after all), but safer. They should all go.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Jun 21, 2007 - 12:30 AM



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Quote:
it is claimed they went in large numbers to the UK, after all


Well, IIRC, one does not need a passport to travel within the EU. If many of them could have gotten further away, they likely would have.

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