Oh, I dunno... if you check that original thread I posted, you might note that there are several posters (excluding the aforementioned know-it-all) who seem quite capable of "getting it".

Of course, there is this one, too: "Heterosexism", which includes a link to this Heterosexist Attitudes Test...

Funny you should use the word "arrogance." Jeff Koslick uses the same word.



That's a paragraph from Colonies & Super-Families; A Vision For Gay Civilization by Jeff Koslik. I don't agree with all of his conclusions, but he has given his book a great deal of thought and I value it for that. The whole thing is worth a read.

When Mr. Koslik says "Straight Think" he seems to be referring more to heterocentrism than heterosexism. Heterocentrism is the idea that the entire universe revolves around str8 people and the way they do things, especially their breeding. Heterosexism is more the overt behaviors and assumptions that come from this mind-set.

A lot of people go on about how none of this is "deliberate," that it may be reflexive. There is nothing "indeliberate" about a thought. This sort of argument is rather like excusing racism as a "nasty habit" brought on by how very many white people there are. We are (as a rule) each of us born into str8 families, we (as a rule) work with str8 co-workers, we go to the same schools, and shop in the same malls. As nice as it might be to spend all of our time in gay nightclubs, we don't (nightclubs are, after all, a luxury devoted to the young and beautiful; the rest of us find other things to do). In fact, we're around most of the time, and we've always been around.

Heterosexism is willful arrogance.

I am sure that if I were straight that I'd never give a second thought to gay rights or gay culture. I'm sympathetic to how we got this way.

At the same time I would be honest about it. I'd say "I never give it a second thought" rather than debate that. The arrogance of not being honest about it gets to me.

Educate?

If you need a list of better things to do with your time, a list of more productive things, let me know.

"Educate," he says. *mutter mutter*

Tehanu's definition of "heterosexist" is as good as any. MonkeyBoy's is a fine elaboration of the phenomenon.

The only thing I would add to the mix is this: heterosexism is most assuredly inherently homophobic. And apparently it's invisible to heterosexists, hence all the shock, utter shock, evinced when some frustrated 'mo decries a particular place as a "cesspit of homophobia." On a homophobia scale of 1 to 10 I would give Buchenwald a 10, a gay-bashing with a tire-iron an 9, the random Freeper slurs an 8, and the run-of-the-mill heterosexism found at EnMasse a 6. A score of 1, of course, is "not homophobic at all," and that is something that heterosexism will never be.

That's why I'm not arguing with her. Nor do I have any illusions about educating her. But I *have* actually had some impact on a number of others there, including Aristotle, West Coast Tiger (who both regularly ask after you, BTW) and others. What I wrote in that thread is for eyes other than IS's.

My working definition has two parts.

The first is the standard 'presumption of heterosexuality,' or, as was stated before, heterosexuality as the 'default.'

The second is the presumption by str8 people that gay people are just the same as str8 people except for that trivial matter of who we have sex with. That is, stubbornly failing take into account the world of differences-- both in experience and aspiration-- between us and them, along with routine dismissal of the assertions by gay people that a vast gulf does indeed exist between us and them. This includes the str8 insistence on viewing our lives in their terms-- i.e, the more subtle forms of the old question: 'so, which one's the girl, anyway?'

BTW, Heph, you're wasting your time arguing with Infosat. She's a homophobic, self-important turd... but then, you knew that.

I got into an interesting discussion over here about the meaning of heterosexism. This straight know-it-all posted:



I responded,



The know-it-all replied,



A queer poster there then answered with,



I added that,



Now, I don't really go to that site to learn anything about queer culture, or to listen to straights get defensive about their built-in prejudices. (Rather, I actually still have some hopes of educating some of them, and I have been asked repeatedly by several regulars there to come back. Anyway, be that as it may, staying on topic in THIS thread...)

What is YOUR understanding of "heterosexism"? I'd be curious to read the thoughts of others.