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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 03:13 PM



Joined: Sep 06, 2006
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Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
You're not the only one saying this, KT...

Reaction to Coulter's slur hints at shift in view of gays

Quote:
When conservative commentator Ann Coulter called former Vice President Al Gore a "total fag" on national television nearly a year ago, it barely caused a stir.

Coulter's recent labeling of presidential candidate John Edwards as a "faggot," however, has triggered a huge response, including a campaign initiated today by a gay rights group and media watchdog to persuade mainstream media outlets to dump her for good.

[...]

Dan Savage, editor of the Stranger, a Seattle alternative news weekly, and author of several books on his life as a gay man, said the reaction to Coulter could indicate a change in how people view gays.

"I always thought we would be reaching a tipping point with anti-gay hate where it will no longer be acceptable, and maybe we are reaching that tipping point now," said Savage.

[...]

Ronald Butters, a Duke University professor who studies the changing meaning of taboo words in American English, said he doesn't think "faggot" has become more or less offensive.

"Words mean what the public takes them to mean," he said. "The very reason that there is a furor is a pretty good indication of how insulting that term was."

Leaders in the gay community said the Coulter fallout could become the prototype for how the public will respond to the use of the term "faggot."

[...]

"It just seems to me the conventional wisdom around Ann Coulter till now has been that the most important thing for anyone to do is ignore her, but I think we have a more serious problem here that we are addressing," said Joe Solmonese, president of the Human Rights Campaign. "This word ought to be seen as offensive and dangerous as any hate-based word."

Conservative gay scholar Andrew Sullivan, who heard Coulter's comments live, said she uttered it with "malice aforethought." But equating it to other slurs is a difficult comparison, Sullivan said. "Nothing has the power of the n-word," he said.

[...]

Butters, the Duke professor, called Coulter's explanation of her use of the word "simply ridiculous and untrue. It is always intended, I think, as a derogatory term of one of the most pernicious sorts," he said.

Thom Lynch, who leads San Francisco's Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Community Center, said he does not hear the word used often among gay men.

"It's not a word people have reclaimed in any sense. If straight people use it in the same way Ann Coulter did, people will get really angry about it," he said.

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Kyleovision
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 03:09 PM



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Quote:

Anyone want to toss out a prediction on how many papers will drop her?


If the number rises above 10 cancellations (and there's a 50-50 chance of that, IMO) UPS will drop her. She'll then get picked up by a smaller Syndicate.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 09:51 AM



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70% (There always seems to be a bedrock level of 30% insane nutcases in the USA -- look at Bush's popularity levels.)

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 09:11 AM



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Universal Press Syndicate says it won't dump Coulter

Quote:
Well look at this -- the news syndicate thinks Ms. Faggot-bomb is A-OK. Greg @ The Horses Mouth:

Quote:
As you may have heard by now, Universal Press Syndicate, the outfit that syndicates Ann Coulter's column, is coming under tremendous pressure to drop Coulter's column in the wake of her "faggot" comment. The gay rights group Human Rights Campaign, for instance, launched a letter-writing campaign late yesterday demanding that UPS nix her column.

Well, I've just gotten in touch with UPS, and they've delivered their answer: No.


Lee Salem, the president and editor of UPS said this in an email reply to him:

Quote:
Thank you for taking the time to write. The contracts with the many writers and cartoonists we represent call for specific products and we have no legal interest in what they may do or say outside of that relationship. In the case of Ann Coulter (and others across the political spectrum whom readers have urged us to drop), she is not an employee and we have no legal power to "fire" her, though, of course, any of her subscribing newspapers can drop her column at any time. Whether the words she chose in referring to John Edwards were misplaced humor or outright bigotry, we would not have distributed them in her column.


Kathie Kerr, UPS's assistant vice president of communications also added they are not responding to the HRC email campaign. In response, HRC is urging people to contact the editors of papers carrying Coulter's column.


Yah. So the list that Media Matters has compiled shall come in handy.

Anyone want to toss out a prediction on how many papers will drop her?

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 06:25 AM



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American Press editor tells Media Matters his paper "dropped Ann Coulter on Monday"

Quote:
Media Matters for America has learned that the American Press of Lake Charles, Louisiana, has dropped right-wing pundit Ann Coulter's nationally syndicated column from its opinion pages, apparently in response to her March 2 remarks at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC), referring to Democratic presidential candidate and former Sen. John Edwards (NC) as a "faggot."

According to a March 8 email Media Matters received from American Press editor Brett Downer, the paper "dropped Ann Coulter on Monday," three days after Coulter made her comments at CPAC. Downer did not say whether Coulter was dropped as a result of her comments.


Ah, an hour (or so) goes by and the score has changed.... to 5

Kyleovision wrote:
Just so that we can keep track, CBS reports that UPS distrubtes her column to about 100 papers.


Media Matters has kindly troubled themselves to compile a more exacting list than some vague murmuring about "100 papers." Now that I think of it, "kindness" may not have been their motive.

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Kyleovision
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 04:35 AM



Joined: Feb 22, 2007
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The score so far:

Lancaster, PA
Sieversville, TN
Pontiac, MI
and now Shreveport, LA

Just so that we can keep track, CBS reports that UPS distrubtes her column to about 100 papers.

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 08, 2007 - 10:53 PM



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Statement by Shreveport Editor Today on Dropping Ann Coulter

Quote:
Today we move past the rhetoric and unproductive dialogue offered by Ann Coulter. The Times is dropping her column effective immediately.

It is her recent “joke” about John Edwards being considered a “faggot” that is the back-breaking straw for a decision we've openly discussed for some time. We had a dialogue with readers last year regarding whether Coulter was a responsible commentator and journalist.

Her repeated use of hyperbole in the call for the death of some journalists and politicians was beyond the pale. And while we all believe she was “just kidding,” her "shock-jock'' writing style is no different from Howard Stern's practical jokes and bathroom humor that aims to draw a school-yard snicker but falls well short of reasonable, thought-provoking journalism. Unlike the work of a Thomas Sowell or a Kathleen Parker, two thoughtful conservatives, does a Coulter column raise the level of discourse?

The answer: rarely.


Editor and Publisher says the count is up to four newspapers. My recollection is that they are mistaken, but alas, I have lost count. I'll let the E&P count go unchallenged.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 08, 2007 - 09:59 PM



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lol.... Chris over at EM reports that Coulter's little hate site appears to be taken off-line. Mr. Green

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Kyleovision
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 11:35 PM



Joined: Feb 22, 2007
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You know it's just dawned on me who benefits the most from this dust-up: Rudy Guiliani and Mitt Romney. When you've got the long-legged pin-up girl so beloved by the hardcore, SoCon Right of your party being ripped-into in this way, it makes Rudy's and Mitt's one-time, temporary and tepid tolerance of the 'mo of the species seem almost... reasonable. Doesn't it?

'Reasonable,' I mean, to a certain group that may or may not exist. Is there really a moderate segment of str8 'swing' voters out there who-- despite their demonstrated willingness to oftentimes vote Repub for reasons of their own-- do not actively mean Us harm?

What?! Don't be stupid, you say. Just stay with me for a second.

Does that semi-mythical segment like us? No. Is that group (if it exists) willing to relegate us to third-class citizenship? Absolutely. Will they ever support us marrying? Not anytime soon. Job Protections? No, try again. Adoption? Eww... and don't be silly.

But... BUT, just as important-- again assuming that these creatures do actually lurk, largely unseen-- do these people give Us any thought at all in the course of their daily lives? I'd have to say... probably not. These would be the passive bigots. These would be the people who are never going to beat up a Gay guy, but will reluctantly acquiesce to that 'Flamer' at work getting canned because... 'well, he creeps everybody out anyway.'

Of course such people would never be allies, but its just possible that they could be approaching 'neutrality.' And that would be unprecedented in this country.

Has 'something changed?' I dunno. The recent Hardaway backlash was surprising. This Coulter thing is less than a week old and just look at it!

Now, yeah, it's possible that this is all a matter of timing: Hardaway, then Coulter in short order and the passive bigots sense of fair play-- albeit a warped sense and one mighty late coming, but a sense nonetheless-- gets 'em to saying something (to themselves) so simple as, 'jeez, little harsh on the homos, eh?'

If so... that would be nothing short of astonishing.

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 10:44 PM



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Oh, both of them have maybe ten-thousand different nuances of meaning in and of themselves, depending on how they're pronounced. I would never suggest that it was impossible for one person to pronounce the word 'fag' in a particular way and another person pronounce 'faggot' in a particular way and have the two words express opposite meanings. It's rather easy. I'm just not familiar with any established practice of using the abbreviated form to consistently mean something else. Here on the East Coast, for instance, there is a subtle difference between 'mo and homo... 'mo is generally understood to be a synonym for fag where homo is not. No one would seriously suggest that the differences between 'mo and homo and homosexual were substantive. On the East Coast all three are routinely used both as slurs and in polite conversation.

I'm just wondering what usages are common where you are. Usage does vary widely from place to place, and often to surprising extremes.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 10:25 PM



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You see no difference between "fag" and "faggot", as used to describe 'mos? (regardless of the "dictionary definition") I do, and I suspect a lot of others, even straights, do.

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 10:07 PM



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Ah, but as I recall, Mr. Hardaway didn't even call anyone anything -- not one naughty word.

I did not agree with Wayne Besen when he wrote the following back on 20 February. I am reconsidering.

Quote:
Grey's Anatomy star Isaiah Washington called a co-star a faggot and ended up in rehab, while former basketball star Tim Hardaway said he hated homosexuals and now his career as an ex-jock pitchman is on a cold slab. This will be remembered as the year the F-word became the new N-word and homophobic comments were no longer considered acceptable in polite company. To be sure, America has not endorsed homosexuality, but the new rules do mean celebrities will lose endorsements if they gratuitously bash homosexuals.


I am unclear what substantive difference there would be in North American vernacular English between 'fag' and 'faggot.' The word fag has at least three legitimate (and charming in a hick sort of way) meanings in Britain. No one thinks Ms Coulter was employing any of those terms. The word 'fag' has but one definition in North America that I am aware of.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 09:33 PM



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Quote:
After all, she called Al Gore a "total fag" some six months ago and... nothing.


I think even straights see a substantive difference between "fag" and "faggot". Plus, Al Gore wasn't running for anything at the time.

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 08:46 PM



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As I recall, there are not a few 'slightly' strident folks on the Left who detest Ms Coulter with an unparalleled passion. This would be their cue to fake being pro-gay and pile on. They could conceivably bring her down. Then again, 'integrity' has been rather popular this last election cycle so they may have qualms about that. In this case, they would be agreeing with this: ""She's this willfully incendiary character, and it shouldn't be surprising when she says things that set off alarms."

Oh, and lest I forget, there's this from Tennessee...

Weekly Ann Coulter column dropped by newspaper

Quote:
The Mountain Press will no longer publish Ann Coulter's weekly column, following her distasteful and irresponsible comments over the weekend about a presidential candidate.

Coulter referred to Democratic candidate John Edwards as a "faggot" in a Friday speech to the Conservative Political Action Conference. Her comments were denounced by both Republicans and Democrats.

"When we agree to buy a syndicated column we expect the writer to offer responsible, reasoned opinion on national and international issues," Editor Stan Voit said. "Ms. Coulter's column drew an unusual amount of criticism from our readers when we first started running it, but we felt she was a nationally known writer offering her opinions in her own style. However we will not continue to publish the columns of someone who uses people as a punch line to get a cheap laugh and who so freely uses an offensive term to describe another human being."


As MonkeyBoy has observed before, "Something has happened. Something has changed." After all, she called Al Gore a "total fag" some six months ago and... nothing.

I'm inclined to agree with him on another point... it seems to me passingly unlikely that Ms Coulter can see that.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 07:18 PM



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Bubbling? We may yet get a rolling boil...

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Kyleovision
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 07:03 PM



Joined: Feb 22, 2007
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GFN:

Quote:
...[A] growing list of companies announced they would no longer advertise on Coulter's Website, Anncoulter.com, and some newspapers said they would drop her syndicated column.

Net Bank, Verizon, Washington Mutual, AT&T/Cingular, Dollar Rent-A-Car, SmileTrain.org, University of Phoenix, Sallie Mae, LasikPlus, Power Chord Academy, Gulf Shores.com/Alabama Gulf Coast Convention and Visitors Bureau, Ulta.com, and Yellow Pages.com have reported they will abandon the right-wing pundit's site.

[...]

...the [Pontiac, Michigan-based] Oakland Press also says they'll no longer carry Coulter's column.


Hee hee, I worked at the Oakland Press, waaay back in the latter Jurassic Period. Good for them.

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Kyleovision
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 06:36 PM



Joined: Feb 22, 2007
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'Media Tolerance' & Coulter's Long Fuse

"By the prickling of my thumbs something wicked this way comes."
--MacBeth, Act IV; scene I.

Quote:
At first, Ann Coulter's anti-gay crack at a Washington conference Friday drew almost no media coverage, although it was witnessed by hundreds of journalists and political operatives and captured by television cameras.

[...]

Why the initial reluctance to report the remark...? "There was a fairly high barrier, in my opinion, to make it worthy of a story, because part of what she's about is trying to use shock language to entertain her audience and, who knows, maybe to sell books," says... [the] chief political correspondent of the New York Times.

[...]

"There's the notion that this is her shtick...."

[...]

Conservative bloggers joined the fray.... Michelle Malkin said Coulter had committed "the equivalent of a rhetorical fragging -- an intentionally tossed verbal grenade that exploded in her own fellow ideological soldiers' tent...."

[...]
Coulter did not respond to a request for comment, but she said on Fox News last night [when {a}sked if she would use a racial slur in a joke, Coulter said it was "semantic totalitarianism to compare everything to the N-word."

[Insert round-up of her wild statements dating back to the early '90s....]

During this decade of denunciations by Coulter, journalists have never quite resolved the question: Is what she says news?

"She's this willfully incendiary character, and it shouldn't be surprising when she says things that set off alarms," says David Folkenflik, National Public Radio's media reporter. "At the same time, she said what she said at a major gathering of the party faithful."


What is the lesson here? Do we need an outrageous Gay version of Ann Coulter? Hmm.

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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 09:18 AM



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Quote:
Perhaps we should change the title to reflect that and try the US Presidential Election again in a new topic?


No problem here. "Make it so, Number One!" Razz

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 07:39 AM



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HRC has decided to put Universal Press Syndicate in its cross-hairs over this.

Coulter Thinks You Weren't Offended

Quote:
Take action today! Stand up and send a clear message to Ann Coulter, and those who would provide her with a platform, that calling someone a “faggot” is wrong, and we won’t sit by without taking action.

Make sure that Ann Coulter’s platform for bigotry and hate is dismantled.

Contact Universal Press Syndicate, the largest independent newspaper syndicate in the world, and let them know that carrying Ann Coulter as a syndicated columnist is not acceptable.

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 07, 2007 - 07:09 AM



Joined: Sep 06, 2006
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Quote:
Let's see where the thread goes.


As MonkeyBoy suggested it might, it bubbles. I can't help but notice that this thread is more or less about Ann Coulter. Perhaps we should change the title to reflect that and try the US Presidential Election again in a new topic?

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