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berto
Post subject: Tax-funded experiment to breed "straights" only  PostPosted: Nov 03, 2006 - 12:57 AM



Joined: Sep 06, 2006
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Location: Valhalla Mountains, British Columbia, Canada
You HAD to have seen this coming, right?

Quote:
Lesbian tennis star Martina Navratilova is condemning hormone-altering experiments on sheep that have displayed what researchers claim are same-sex attractions, attempting to determine how to breed only "straight" sheep.

Researchers at Oregon State University and Oregon Health & Science University have in some papers on the subject referred to the sheep as "gay". The research is funded by taxpayers through the year 2008.

[...]

According to PETA, OHSU experimenter Charles Roselli is drugging pregnant sheep to prevent the actions of hormones in their fetuses' brains and cutting open the brains of rams he calls "male-oriented" -- homosexual -- in an attempt to find the hormonal mechanisms behind homosexual tendencies so that they can subsequently be changed. 

Roselli's cohort, Frederick Stormshak of OSU, has surgically installed an estrogen device in rams' bodies in an effort to alter "gay sheep's" sexual preferences and make them "heterosexual."

According PETA the grant applications say the experimenters plan to extrapolate the test results to humans -- with the insidious implication that homosexuality in people can be "cured."


Okay, granted that this comes from those PETA wack-os, but if there is ANY truth to this....

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vanrozenheim
Post subject: RE: Tax-funded experiment to breed "straights" onl  PostPosted: Nov 03, 2006 - 02:05 AM
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Yeah, once there were also reports about a quick test for homosexuals: Some Dr. Rahman has experimented with twinking reflex upon a disturbing sound and has found that straight men, gay men & women, and straight women show significant differences.

Don't ask me for the exact scientific background behind the experimental technic (it's called "Prepulse Inhibition Test"), but it seems to work.

As always in science, the findings can be used both for good and for evil -- Dr. Rahman himself is co-autor of a book promoting the "born gay" thesis. As the research performed now on pregnant sheep shows, the "being born that way" does not disturb the enemies of the gay people - they simply moved their attention from grown-up, accomplished homosexuals to the unborn ones, which shall be "cured" now by a chemo.

While science as such is not "good" or "bad", there is a lot of science which is unnecessary and ethically unacceptable. By all means, I can not recognize what good purpose the research of Mr. Charles Roselli can serve, while it clearly causes avoidable suffering to animals. Ethic guildlines allow painfull research on verterbrate organisms only for a VERY good reason, e.g. when a medication for a deadly desease is searched for, everything else is unnecessary torturing.
 
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Feral
Post subject: RE: Tax-funded experiment to breed "straights" onl  PostPosted: Nov 03, 2006 - 03:03 AM



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Hephaestion wrote:
Okay, granted that this comes from those PETA wack-os, but if there is ANY truth to this....


Yes, well... this is a trick question, is it not? Is PETA especially known for the veracity of it's statements?

The Next Hurrah has an excellent post on this subject. The contributor (it is a group blog) has bothered to communicate directly with Dr. Roselli, and the Doctor has been gracious enough to respond. It's worth reading. The operative bit:


Quote:
But, like I said, I didn't know Dr. Roselli -- so I asked him. I wrote, "Do you think homosexuality is something that can or should be 'cured'?" His reply: "No," he said. "And I find it appalling and offensive that PETA has suggested that I and my collaborators do."

If PETA can defend their claim that his intention is to cure homosexuality, I would like to see that. Because it is a damn nasty thing to say. And as far as I can tell, it is a bald-faced lie.


A bit of research into Dr. Roselli's work finds that he IS messing with the orientation of sheep -- he's trying to produce faggot sheep.

Born gay? How biology may drive orientation

Quote:
As the culture wars rage over gay rights, a flock of sheep at Oregon State University may help answer a key question behind the controversy: Is homosexuality a matter of choice or biology?

The Corvallis herd includes a group of rams that scientists delicately refer to as "male-oriented." These animals consistently ignore females and bestow all their amorous attentions on members of their own sex.

Researcher Charles Roselli says a decade of study suggests sexual orientation is largely hard-wired into the sheep's brains before birth. Now, he's trying to figure out how that happens, zeroing in on genes and hormones. In a bold test of his ideas, he hopes to engineer the birth of gay rams by altering conditions in the womb.


Quote:
Roselli is waiting for a group of lambs born last spring to reach sexual maturity. Their mothers were dosed with drugs to block the action of male hormones in the fetuses. If Roselli's hypothesis is correct, rams born of this experiment will be disproportionately gay.


Ultimately the researchers seek a test which will determine the "sexual orientation" of rams. Since sheep are notoriously reticent on this (or any) subject, you can't just ask them. The chief agricultural purpose of rams is to make baby sheep, and since Americans dine on some 4,000,000 of them a year, it's helpful if the rams participate with some enthusiasm. Between 6% to 10% of the lads are what most people would call 'mos, though. No biggie for the ram, but a bit of a problem for the rancher who has spent $300 to $500 for him.

Might this research extend into making the poor 'mo sheep turn straight? I seriously doubt it. I really don't see the economics of it. The Ranchers' interests are satisfied in knowing which rams are "straight," not in maximizing the number of rams that are straight. After all, the customary fate of the overwhelming majority of rams is lamb chops -- grilled medium rare with rosemary.

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vanrozenheim
Post subject: RE: Tax-funded experiment to breed "straights" onl  PostPosted: Nov 25, 2006 - 08:14 AM
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Totally unimportant, but somehow "in topic" anecdote...

An unexpected behaviour in male humanoids (gay? straight? questioning?):

Quote:
Before Friday, Siegert was best known for being arrested for driving under the influence after he and an ex-teammate stole a ram from an OSU research project on gay sheep after the 2004 season. Some called for his dismissal, as that escapade followed several other legal misadventures that put the program in a bad light.


It is not clear from the article, why someone called for the man's dismissal - because of driving under influence or because of steeling a sheep. The poor animal was certainly scared to death.
 
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Feral
Post subject: RE: Tax-funded experiment to breed "straights" onl  PostPosted: Nov 25, 2006 - 02:23 PM



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Here is an article more focused on the young man's involvement with the criminal justice system than his skill at American football.

It is quite common for American universities to suspend or expel students who are convicted of crimes, especially if the publicity surrounding the case shows the school in a bad light. Some schools have a harsher view of inappropriate conduct on the part of their students and will suspend or expel students who have simply been charged with crimes. An added layer to this story is the widespread perception that school athletes are governed by a more lenient policy in light of their value to the sports team. The view is especially held of football players -- historically there have been more than a few scandals where valued players have been seen to be above the law by both the school and the local civil authorities.

In this instance, those who would have called for the young man's dismissal from the university would have done so because of the totality of the crimes -- the drunken driving and the stolen sheep, as well as the criminal trespass required to gain access to the sheep in the first place and likely some incidental vandalism of locks or gates. Driving under the influence of alcohol by itself is unlikely to provoke such action and dismissal would be called for only by the most strident of advocates for "law and order." Theft of university property is quite a different matter.

I must confess, it seems to me unlikely that had some anonymous student who was not on the school football team had been caught driving drunk and in possession of stolen school property the penalties exacted by both the civil authorities and the school would have been so lenient. Perhaps the standards are more lax in Corvallis, Oregon than I am used to. Certainly the university I attended would not have considered the incident a "prank."

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vanrozenheim
Post subject: RE: Tax-funded experiment to breed "straights" onl  PostPosted: Nov 29, 2006 - 07:13 AM
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When Parkinson's Just Isn't Enough

Quote:
Who knows -- if it's magical enough, maybe it could even cure homosexuality one day (not a choice, right?). So when they finally find and isolate the gay gene, they can look for it in developing embryos, weed those out, and use those for embryonic stem cell therapy.

How'd that be? A stem cell cure for homosexuality! If anyone is still gay after that, it's obviously a choice (tsk tsk!).
 
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vanrozenheim
Post subject: RE: Tax-funded experiment to breed "straights" onl  PostPosted: Feb 26, 2007 - 10:55 PM
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Radar, March/April 2007

Quote:
A piece considers the moral and political implications of gay babies. Fetal screening technology may soon let parents detect homosexuality, and scientists predict that within a decade parents will have the option of applying a hormone patch to set a gay fetus straight. But until such a "remedy" exists, pro-life conservatives and gay rights opponents "will have to ask themselves whether the public shame of having a gay child outweighs the private sin of terminating a pregnancy."


Does anyone have easy access to the magazine? A copy of the article would be fine...
 
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Kyleovision
Post subject:   PostPosted: Feb 27, 2007 - 01:09 AM



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Quote:
But until such a "remedy" exists, pro-life conservatives and gay rights opponents "will have to ask themselves whether the public shame of having a gay child outweighs the private sin of terminating a pregnancy."


Well, that's one way to stop the sabre-rattling about Roe v. Wade, once and for all.

I'm afraid I see a much darker future. That is, one in which abortion of such fetuses (and/or hormone therapy to eradicate the 'defect') is required by statute.

If the Right can garner 80% of the vote in plebiscites over Equal Marriage (and they have), what sort of numbers do you suppose they could pull for a pre-natal Final Solultion of the Gay Problem?

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 02:28 AM



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Kyleovision wrote:
If the Right can garner 80% of the vote in plebiscites over Equal Marriage (and they have), what sort of numbers do you suppose they could pull for a pre-natal Final Solultion of the Gay Problem?


Earlier I was not so sure that the two issues would poll similarly at all. I must be naive. Thomas Kraemer has pointed me to Andrew Sullivan, and both have linked to an essay that I do not care to link to. Mr. Kraemer sees a "the futility of denying the scientific evidence that being gay is inborn," while Mr. Sullivan sees a "final solution."

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vanrozenheim
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 07:32 AM
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An interesting, though rather frightening standpoint by William Saletan:

Gay sheep revisited
Quote:
Most people who defend homosexuality as a biological trait assume it can't be changed. Martina Navratilova, for example, is asking the universities to shut down the sheep research and spend the money instead on fostering "acceptance for people of all sexual preferences." What if the research destroys that assumption, too? What if it proves that sexual orientation is biologically based and that we don't have to accept it? What if science makes it possible to chemically reduce the prevalence of homosexuality without oppressing anyone?

That's the first reason not to squelch basic research. If you let it run its course, it might disabuse you of the assumptions that made you want to squelch it. The same can be true of technology. Looking back at the wretched history of hormone therapy for homosexuality, it's easy to say, "Never again." But the latest, albeit unsuccessful, interventions in sheep are at the fetal stage, when the brain is taking shape. If you don't regard the human fetus as a person—precisely because its brain hasn't fully formed—can you really say it was ever gay? Does your objection to medicating gay people still apply?

That's another reason to let research go forward: It might expose contradictions in your politics. You might find yourself in the odd position of pleading for acceptance of homosexuality as a natural condition while at the same time denouncing Catholic bishops who plead for acceptance of infertility as a natural condition. Is one kind of infertility more sacred than another?

The final reason to be wary of stifling research is that half-developed technology can be worse than the finished product. The sheep investigators have already identified brain markers that roughly correlate with homosexuality. What they deny doing—and PETA, in its efforts to stop the research, accuses them of doing—is trying to alter orientation in the womb. But if doctors learn to spot emerging gay brains and are unable to alter them, parents who are determined not to raise gay children will do what's already done to female fetuses in much of the world: abort them.

Science is scary. It can change your body and your mind. But smothering it can be just as dangerous. The wisest course is to keep an eye on its participants, their motives, and potential applications of their work, never letting one motive or application obscure others. Political attacks that blur these differences don't help.


The very day the "no-more-pink-pill" will be awailable, we will not be safe from their happily-innocent small-talk: "And, when are you going to give up homosexuality? I heard they make it now with plasters - really convenient. Takes some 3 or 4 weeks, and then you are clean, I mean totally clean. The causin of my wife also was this way, and now he is dating a girl - never thought this guy would get it. Saves you a lot of money."

I tell you, our "liberal" fellow citizens so far were simply resignating upon our homosexuality -- at the end, it was not curable. And since the liberal mind doesn't accept murdering of innocent, "born-this-way" creatures, they were of course "tolerant" to us. But at the very second they hear of the prospects for a "straight pill" to be invented by Pfizer or Bayer, the hope sparkles in their eyes as bright as ever: "Is it possible? Can homosexuality be cured?"


Last edited by vanrozenheim on Mar 09, 2007 - 08:53 AM; edited 1 time in total
 
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berto
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 08:51 AM



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It's funny, but I hear people pooh-pooh-ing the idea that this research could be used for a "final solution", but it's mostly the straight 'liberals' saying that... the instinctive reaction I've read from most gays is fear. It has not been that many years since Auschwitz, and the slaughter still continues for *our* people in many parts of the globe. The reaction seems to be immediate, and at a subconscious level -- we don't need to "think it through" -- we hear "extermination".

Or is it just me who's noticed that?

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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 09:30 AM



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No. It's not just you who's noticed that. While these same straight 'liberals' are very quick to levy the charge of paranoia at us, there are counter-charges of ignorance and naivete in the offing.

Paranoia is something to guard against. After all, whenever a gay nation-state is discussed by more than a handful of people, the notion that it would (of course) be immediately attacked arises. Really? By whom? Military action requires considerable expeditures... the number of countries that can be that free with their resources is quite limited. Distance of any kind magnifies those costs considerably... further limiting the number of likely aggressors. Just which all-powerful country is it that is going to sweep down and wipe some gay state off the globe? No one ever says, yet they are convinced of its inevitability.

Quote:
we hear "extermination"


That would be because it keeps being said. Perhaps the straight 'liberals' are out of touch and don't hear it.

Scratch that. What am I saying? Perhaps?

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Kyleovision
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 09, 2007 - 02:55 PM



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Quote:

we hear "extermination


Note that the str8 liberals don't stop and wonder why we think that way. Note that they don't ask us why. No, they just assume that we're paranoid, and therefore dismiss our concerns.

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Kyleovision
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 11, 2007 - 04:31 PM



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And right on cue:

The Calls For Genocide Commence

Quote:
One of the nation's leading Southern Baptists has called for a policy that would support medical treatment, if it were to become available, to change the sexual orientation of a fetus inside its mother's womb from homosexual to heterosexual.

[...]

Acknowledging the strides that genetic science is making in identifying and isolating genetic abnormalities, defects and diseases, Mohler embraces this advance in medical science as yet another tool in the war to root out and cleanse sin.

[...]

Simply put, Mohler believes that homosexuality is one of God's ways of punishing us for original sin. And now science promises to provide a new means to root out sin and temptation even before birth.

"If a biological basis [for homosexuality] is found, and if a prenatal test is then developed, and if a successful treatment to reverse the sexual orientation to heterosexual is ever developed, we would support its use as we should unapologetically support the use of any appropriate means to avoid sexual temptation and the inevitable effects of sin," Mohler wrote in advice for Christians.

Mohler restates his opposition to aborting fetuses or embryos who "are identified as homosexual in orientation," but said advancement on determining a biological basis for such orientation should be used "for the greater glory of God."


Oh, how they do talk out of both sides of their mouths. This is theological argument in the alternative. "Homosexuality is a sinful choice. We know because God told us so," they say. "But if it isn't a sinful choice, well... then it's a punishment for Original Sin," they say.

I mean, woudn't the latter reading make the homosexual a particularly Blessed Creature? Suffering as he does at the hands of the multitudinous other sinners-- not unlike Christ-- to help mitigate the first sin of Mankind?

No, they say, these are not Blessed Creatures. They are vermin to be exterminated. How very... Christian.

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vanrozenheim
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 11, 2007 - 09:16 PM
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Feral wrote:
After all, whenever a gay nation-state is discussed by more than a handful of people, the notion that it would (of course) be immediately attacked arises. [..] Just which all-powerful country is it that is going to sweep down and wipe some gay state off the globe? No one ever says, yet they are convinced of its inevitability.


This is indeed some peculiar, re-accurent pattern. Ridiculously they are exactly the same people who say that gays and straights can perfectly live together, who say such silly things. But Feral, what they are actually meaning is this: "Why should I move out of a safe anonymity in SF to a place where no US-Army is defending my safety???" The guy in Kabul would probably not hesitate much to sign his immigration request.

But you are right: even a homophobic country must have reasons to assault some distant enemy, however hated one. If the founding fathers/mothers of the Gay state would take at least some precautions in choosing the place, there would be no hostile direct neighbours. And who says this state would not be able to defend itself?

In the case of extermination by the simple means of diagnsis and abortion or chemo"therapy", the fears are real. We all know how the ratio of female:male babies has dropped dramatically in India since they can make the supersonics? And mind you, telling the results of the supersonic is a serious crime in India - but who will flaunt about doctor's indiscretion?

In our cause, even if they will not kill the babies but turn them straight, the result will be the genocide on the Gay people. And yes - the definition of genocide is not limited to physical extermination only, it also includes taking away children and rising them in a foreign cultural environment... Oh wait, isn't this what straight people are already doing all the time?
 
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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 11, 2007 - 09:30 PM



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Quote:
Oh wait, isn't this what straight people are already doing all the time?


Umm... yes.

Is this not an established crime under international law? Is it not customary to prosecute such persons (or at least call for their prosecution)? Is it such madness to suggest that perhaps these people should, at the very least, stop committing this crime?

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vanrozenheim
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 11, 2007 - 10:04 PM
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Feral wrote:
Is this not an established crime under international law? Is it not customary to prosecute such persons (or at least call for their prosecution)?


Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide

Quote:
Article II

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

( a ) Killing members of the group;

( b ) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

( c ) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

( d ) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

( e ) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Article III

The following acts shall be punishable:

( a ) Genocide;

( b ) Conspiracy to commit genocide;

( c ) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;

( d ) Attempt to commit genocide;

( e ) Complicity in genocide.


Apart from Article II (a), all of the rest in the Article II is official policy of most governments, Churches, parents, teachers, legislateors etc.
 
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Feral
Post subject:   PostPosted: Mar 12, 2007 - 04:36 AM



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Ex-Gay Leader Would ‘Treat’ Gay People Out of Existence If Gay Gene Were Discovered

Quote:
In a speech at University of California Santa Barbara this week, ex-gay leader Chad Thompson seemed to welcome the elimination of gay people if a gene that determined sexual orientation were discovered. This is quite ironic, considering Thompson wrote the book “Loving Homosexuals as Jesus Would.”

“I think it would be cool if a gay gene were discovered. Then God would get more glory when people are changed,” Thompson said.

“Sounds like Thompson would ‘love’ gay people right out of existence if he had his way,” said Truth Wins Out’s Executive Director Wayne Besen. “If this is how ex-gays love, I’d be afraid to see them when they hate.”

...

Thompson runs the Iowa-based group Inqueery that works to get ex-gay speakers placed in public schools. Thompson also holds the odd belief that people become gay as punishment for the sins of dead relatives. He calls this malady a “generational curse.”

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Feral
Post subject: Re: RE: Tax-funded experiment to breed "straights"  PostPosted: Mar 15, 2007 - 01:57 AM



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vanrozenheim wrote:
Radar, March/April 2007

Quote:
A piece considers the moral and political implications of gay babies. Fetal screening technology may soon let parents detect homosexuality, and scientists predict that within a decade parents will have the option of applying a hormone patch to set a gay fetus straight. But until such a "remedy" exists, pro-life conservatives and gay rights opponents "will have to ask themselves whether the public shame of having a gay child outweighs the private sin of terminating a pregnancy."


Does anyone have easy access to the magazine? A copy of the article would be fine...


I believe this is exactly what you seek, and if it isn't, then I suspect it will interest you anyway.

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vanrozenheim
Post subject: Re: RE: Tax-funded experiment to breed "straights"  PostPosted: Mar 15, 2007 - 11:27 AM
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Feral wrote:
I believe this is exactly what you seek, and if it isn't, then I suspect it will interest you anyway.


Ah, thank you very much! This was indeed the requested material! It's nice to actually have read the piece what our enemies are talking about so much.
 
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